Smoothies, Radioactive Waste and Pink Cadillacs

Welcome to Science at Work, a new podcast from Savannah River National Laboratory in Aiken, South Carolina. You might not know very much or even anything about what a national lab is or what it does. We aim to change that with stories about how we put science to work, as our motto goes, interviewing the scientists, engineers and other talented people who are at the heart of who we are, what we do and why it matters.

I’m your host, Mike Ettlemyer. Science at Work is a production of the Savannah River National Laboratory, SRNL, Office of Communications.

First, a little history. An outgrowth of immense investment in scientific research by the U.S. government during World War II, the national laboratories have served as the leading institutions for scientific innovation in the United States for more than 70 years.

We tackle critical scientific challenges and possess unique instruments and facilities, many of which are found nowhere else in the world. During the Second World War, The Manhattan Project created several secret sites for the purpose of bomb research and material development, including a laboratory in the mountains of New Mexico, Los Alamos, directed by Robert Oppenheimer. Now, you may have seen the movie Oppenheimer last summer.

These sites were the beginnings of the national laboratories. This year is particularly special for Savannah River National Laboratory. It marks 20 years since we were designated a national lab by the Department of Energy in 2004. However, the very beginnings of the lab stretch back to the Cold War in the 1950s. We have a rich history which we’ll touch on today and in future episodes.

Each month, we’ll discuss how SRNL puts science to work to help protect our environment, serve our national defense, secure our clean energy future and reduce emerging nuclear threats. Whenever possible, we’ll present the research in more general terms so non-scientists among us, myself included, understand it and how it might have relevance in our lives.

You might not know that the national labs have contributed to the discovery of more than 20 elements on the periodic table, including one that revolutionized the field of medical imaging and another that is widely used in smoke detectors. There are many other examples of how national labs have contributed to science and innovation in the United States and beyond.

If you are listening now, you could be a scientist or engineer. You might work at SRNL or one of the 16 other national labs. You could have no connection to the lab but have an interest in science. Whatever brought you here, we hope to keep you interested in our research and invite you to come back for more insights into Savannah River National Laboratory.

Our first guest is Sean Noble, a chemical engineer at SRNL. Sean recently highlighted his work and was awarded best presentation in the Environmental Resilience category at the National Research SLAM on November 15th in Washington, D.C. Sean and representatives from the other 16 national laboratories gave compelling three-minute presentations of their research in a language appropriate to a lay audience.

Sean’s presentation explained how his research in advanced computer modeling increased safety and productivity, while reducing costs associated with the mixing and transporting of liquid waste. Sean, thanks for joining us.

Sean Noble: Thank you for having me. All right. For this, I’m going to need a bit of audience participation to really get me in the mood of my talk.

Mike: That sounds good.

Sean: Okay. By show of hands, who likes smoothies? Yeah, me too. I love, love smoothies. A strawberry mango smoothie is so good. My problem with smoothies, though, is that they’re hard to make. You know, you add too much ice and it really doesn’t mix, right. Or you had too much of the liquid in it. It just kind of turns into cold juice, and you try to pour the smoothie out of the blender and it really just kind of plops everywhere, gets messy. It’s just difficult, you know? Well, the liquid waste at the Savannah River Site, it’s a lot like a smoothie. It’s a thick slurry. Okay, well, it is a bit more dangerous than a smoothie because it is radioactive liquid waste. So, let’s call it a danger smoothie. There are 34 million gallons of liquid waste stored at the Savannah River Site in massive underground tanks.

This waste is primarily a byproduct of the processing of nuclear materials as far back as World War II in the 1950s. The goal of the Savannah River Site is to remediate this liquid waste and to reduce the environmental risk that it poses. While in liquid form, the waste poses a threat of leaching into the environment and causing harm.

So, there’s a need to change the waste from a liquid into a solid that’s much more stable and able to be stored long term. This is done through a process called vitrification, wherein the liquid waste is turned into a glass form stored into large canisters and placed underground long term. But during this process, there are very, you know, difficult problems that occur that there’s no quick or cost-effective way to address.

But my research using advanced computer modeling is able to address these problems in a way that is quick and cost effective. This is because the simulations can be done by a small team and their computers over the course of weeks or even days, depending on the complexity of the simulations. For example, there’s a tank at the Savannah River Site used to mix liquid waste with silica, a glass forming particle in the preparation of the vitrification of that waste, turning it into glass.

But during this process there occurred an issue where the impeller blade fell off and the quality of seven canisters of liquid waste was in question. So, my team and I were able to perform simulations of the mixing vessel with the missing impeller blade, and we were able to determine that the waste was indeed well mixed before being turned into glass. And that those seven canisters would meet the set safety and quality standards. So overall, my research increases safety, increases productivity and it saves money. So, the next time you want to make a smoothie, try computer modeling.

Mike: Thanks for being with us, Sean, and for educating us about your research at SRNL. And I love smoothies, so that was an apt description.

And a danger smoothie? I don’t think I would order one of those.

Sean: Yeah.

Mike: Congratulations again on the win in the National Research SLAM. That’s really good stuff.

Sean: Thank you. It was a great experience, and I enjoyed it.

Mike: Our next guest is Susie Ferrara, manager of the Cold War Preservation Program at Savannah River Site. She has unique knowledge of SRNL now, having worked at the Savannah River Site — where SRNL was located — and with the lab for more than 35 years. Susie’s father worked at SRNL managing the Equipment Engineering Group. But she can tell you more about that, her connection to SRNL and her experiences working here.

Susie, welcome to the podcast.

Susie Ferrara: Oh, thank you so much. It’s so good here to be with you. I’m excited about a podcast. I’ve never been on one.

Mike: It’s great to see you again and to have you here.

Susie: Thank you.

Mike: So, I’ve got a few questions for you and we can see where this takes us.

Susie: Terrific.

Mike: So, how did you end up working here at the Savannah River Site and with Savannah River National Laboratory?

Susie: Well, actually, the Savannah River Site was not my first choice of employment having a dad that worked at the site for about 48 years. I said I was never going to go work at the bomb plant. A graduate of the University of South Carolina in Columbia, majoring in journalism and theater, I think I had my eyes set more on a bigger city landscape, you know? I think I was a little wooed by ABC, NBC News, you know, that whole thing. And then, you know, reality kind of hits a little bit. And I started interviewing around like, Coca-Cola in Atlanta.

I had actually done an internship, my college internship at Walt Disney World. So, that was great from the marketing and the sales point of view. But I couldn’t dance down Main Street because I was too tall. I was too tall for Minnie. Too tall for Mickey. And so being cast as a chipmunk for my future really didn’t bode well with my parents. Yeah, you’re going to have to get a real job, kid. And that’s what happened.

I was actually on my way back to graduate school. My dad said, why don’t you apply at the plant? No, no, no, but I went ahead and just kind of sent it in. Anyway, and, got a call for an interview, and it was like crossfire because DuPont Public Affairs was wrapping up.

They were very small team, maybe three. They had, you know, the newspaper and two managers. Then they had Westinghouse coming in, which was going to do a full-scale public affairs because the plant was so secret. You know, they were planning tours and things that we do now, today, you know, all this stuff.

And so, I interviewed with both the public affairs manager for DuPont and Westinghouse. And it was like crossfire, you know. Well, you’re a local kid. Do you know what we do? And it was kind of a hurried interview because The Washington Post was coming in The New York Times. I mean, it was a big time of this change.

And then they’re like, yeah, thanks. Nice interview, bye. And I went home and, and dad came home from work and I’m sitting on the front steps. He goes, what did you think? I said, yeah, I think I’m going to graduate school, that it didn’t turn out well. But long story short, as it goes, I got a phone call from the lady I was going to report to, Linda Walter, and she was kind of direct. She goes, you’re going to come work for us or what? And I’m like, lady, I don’t know who you are. So, ironically, dad and I walked across the street. I get the hiring letter and the rest is history. You know, 35 years in a blink and I’m, you know, I’m still having fun.

Mike: It goes by fast.

Susie: Yes. It does.

Mike: Yeah. So, I was going to ask you, so what did you study when you were in school? But I think you definitely touched on that — journalism.

Susie: Yes. Right. Yeah, okay. So, I loved broadcast. You know, I loved it, but God, we had a grouchy old TV — I think I was more scared of him, but I enjoyed the writing aspect of it. So, I knew broadcast really wasn’t going to scratch that itch.

So, public affairs, to me, was the best of both worlds when you when you work on those campaigns. And I felt like that used a lot of my tools and that’s what I’ve always enjoyed working here at the Savannah River Site, That even working in communications is, you know, I was blessed to work, giving tours, you know, Donna Hood home. And then I started the tours program, and then, oh, she can walk and talk and chew gum.

And I started out with writing and then media relations and governmental affairs. So very blessed to move around our genre, but didn’t have to leave, you know, Aiken, as a native. And then even now, today, you know, I did a stint in training with our nuclear operator training program, and you learn a lot about the field. You learn a lot about what the line needs and, and that human resource aspect. But, yeah, I mean, just to have the opportunity to do the Cold War history program was, just it’s a blessing. It’s really an honor because a lot of the parents I grew up with, you know, the dads, we didn’t know what they did, you know.

And then, you know, because I grew up swimming on swim team, you know, I mean it was traffic. You knew that dad left the house at six, got home at five. You knew all these dads, but you didn’t know what they did.

Mike: And it was mysterious.

Susie: It was, I mean, and they didn’t talk about what they did, you know? Where do you work? Savannah River Plant. I work at the plant, you know. Never knew what any of them did. So, it’s neat to come out and work here because then you’re like, that’s Dr. Todd Crawford. Oh, my God, he’s you know, he’s a scientist. He’s a researcher.

All these people were doing one-of-a-kind work protecting the security of our nation, and they’re in our backyard. I mean, our kids, we didn’t know. No, we didn’t know. And it’s really neat to be an employee and to know all these people because you’re like, wow. You know, we really met the true Cold War warriors. I mean, these were the people that got the job done, and we had no idea whatsoever. So, it’s kind of neat to be in the position now that I can see all that.

Mike: So, tell us about your dad. You mentioned your dad a little bit and the work he did here at SRNL.

Susie: Yeah. So, dad, gosh, you know, of all the people, my family were all type A personalities. And my dad’s not; mechanical engineer by trade. So, I got to back you up a little bit to tell you how we got here. So, my dad went to the University of Connecticut, started work at the Argonne, and was working with my uncle, who was a chemist in the lab.

So, the family joke goes, is my uncle brought my dad home to meet the family and, you know, my mom. And they said, well, dad never left for dinner because, you know, he married mom, and the rest is history. So, he got the job at Savannah River Plant, and so they got married. You know, here’s mom out of Joliet, Chicago, and dad’s in Connecticut.

And they land here in Aiken, South Carolina. And my mom’s like, I don’t know what a cockroach was.

Mike: Of all the places.

Susie: Oh, yeah. Right. And he said, oh, don’t worry, Sally, we only have a couple kids. We’ll only be here a couple of years. Well, 54 plus years later, five kids and things of that nature.

So, I didn’t know what dad really did. I can tell you the memories. And I was I kind of, when we you said, hey, come on, let’s go talk on the podcast, I called my sister, Nancy. She’s not been on the site, so hopefully I’ll get her out. And, you know, I said, what did I really think about the site early on or the plant? I was scared to death of it because I remember I had to drive his Buick to pick him up at work, and we were to drive to Columbia to school, and I was like, dad, you better be out by that gate. I don’t want to get shot. I don’t want these people, you know?

And he’s like, Susie, it’s the National Lab. Just pull up over here and everything. And the other early memory, as a kid is, I remember when they had the first family day, and I remember going into the lab, and it was at the time they had the first dot matrix printer.

Mike: That was a few years ago.

Susie: And it was such a big deal because they were all like, oh, and they were printing out Snoopy. And I was a big Snoopy fan. So, I’m sure somewhere I’ve got Snoopy. But it was the dot matrix printer from the lab! Just pull over here. So glad I didn’t get arrested. But, you know, that was pretty ridiculous. But when you’re a kid. It was the site. You It was the plant. Don’t speed. Don’t go where you’re not supposed to be. You know, it was that veil of secrecy, you know, right in our backyard. So, you know, you knew the one thing you knew when growing up is you didn’t speed down 125 and you didn’t stop on highway 125.

You didn’t know what was going to come out of the woods and get you, that kind of thing.

Mike: Right. Well, and this place can be intimidating. It’s a strange place. Serious work, but we have fun, too.

Susie: Yes, we do.

Mike: So, let’s see what stands out to you in terms of, what SRNL has added to the network of national labs during the last 20 years. You know, celebrating our 20th anniversary and, what stands out to you?

Susie: Well, you know, it’s the people. I know when I used to do public tours, I say it even today. That really the national lab is a brain trust. It’s brilliant minds, honestly, talented people that, you know, historically, the plant came to them and said, hey, can you fix this? Or here’s an apparatus. Can the glass blowers, you know, design it? You know, our high-level caves and how it’s just all tied in that scientific brains fixed it. But the contributions like Dr. Jim Kronberg, he used to be in the basement. I used to get so tickled going by his office with the McDonald’s sign, and it was like 100 million patents served.

And I’ll never forget Jim Kronberg coming out of, 3-700 one day. And he had a mannequin arm tucked under his arm. I thought, what in the world? This man’s got a mannequin. And I said, doc, what are you doing now? And he was instrumental in the bone welder, you know, for healing bones and stuff. The contributions of the national lab on a national scale is just limitless. And I think it’s the gem in the crown in the Savannah River Site that, you know, may not be front and center, but it’s because they do such important work. I mean, look what they did with 9/11. You know, they got the call. They responded. They got up there, got the equipment, started looking and insisting there, you know, just the research is just, you know, it stands out. I’m glad they finally determined. I think Lindsey Graham was instrumental. Senator Graham in getting us a national labs status. I think we were national before you got the title.

So, a lot of unsung heroes and heroines, but never a dull moment. Like I said, in the curation facility, we have the early robots. That technology that they’re using now, I mean, if you’ve got a little robot that’s a little vacuum cleaner running around in your house, let me tell you something. A lot of that came early on from a lot of brilliant minds. I always tell folks, you know, this isn’t stuff you look up online. You know, these are brilliant people that sat down with pen and paper and made it happen. No challenge. There was never a no. It is what it is.

The other thing that stands out with the national lab was, Carol Jansen, Dr. Jansen making up that glass waste mixture for the Defense Waste Processing Facility. And she’s here. She lives in Aiken. She’s teaching at the university. I mean, your neighbors are doing this kind of science. I mean, who knew.

Mike: That’s right, that’s right.

Susie: So, a lot of people ask about carpools, especially our young employees. And, and I always like to talk a little bit about the employee culture and a lot of that comes with the carpools. And one thing I always remember with dad is, you know, his carpool was on time every day. You know, they never miss it. Rain or shine. I know when there was a snowstorm, he got, you know, picked up by Jeep. Then off to work they went. Well, I can remember one afternoon quite the excitement in the household. One of the men in the carpools, his wife was the top seller for Mary Kay Cosmetics.

And if you know anything about Mary Kay, if you’re the top seller, you get a pink Cadillac.

Mike: So, no pink Jeep.

Susie: No, that was just a standard, rugged, manly man Jeep. But then one morning in front of our house rolls up a hot pink Cadillac and all the men in the carpool were not impressed.

But they had to get to work. And then that afternoon, it was quite the discussion that they were seen going to work. And then it was quite the scuttlebutt as it dropped the carpool members across the site. So, quite the discussion topic at the dinner table. But that was a one and done trip. After that, I think the Jeep came back. But yeah, it was scandalous. You know, a hot pink Cadillac at work.

Mike: I’ll bet it took them, a little bit to…

Susie: Live it down.

Mike: Live it down is the word I’m looking for. Yeah, I bet it took a while to live it down.

Susie: All I know, I think it was a one and done trip. It was back to the gray silver and the boring Savannah River Site commute. So yeah, those are some fun memories you always remember. But a lot of those carpool men stayed together, you know, until retirement. And, you know, a lot of culture. There are a lot of good times there.

Mike: Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, these are great stories. Thanks for your time today and for sharing your expertise, Susie.

Susie: Oh, it was my pleasure. It’s my pleasure. And I just wish everyone at the national lab a happy anniversary. And, you know, it’s been an honor and a pleasure to work with so many people. And, you know, that’s what makes it great out here is you work with some brilliant people that you know you’ll never, ever in another career path ever do. So, thanks for having me.

Mike: Well, we’re going to have you back, I hope.

Susie: Ok.

Mike: We’ll be doing that. And thanks to all of you for listening. Science at Work is a production of the Savannah River National Laboratory.